[paddys wink]

what kind of job do you think he has done?

[Dave. zzz....]

Pretty poorly on reflection. I'd much rather Cameron won next time around, but then I'm a Tory by nature and anything half competent from the party would get my vote.

Yourself?

[Forgone Conclusion]

I think labour (though more specifically Gordon Brown) has done an pretty good job with the economy, and tbh he hasn't really done that bad a job the rest of the time. Obviously there have been bad things - the NHS isn't in that great a shape, the ccontroersy of the war in Iraq, etc, but every government has it's problems so it's a bit harsh to havew a go at him for those things.

However, having said that, I dont trust him at all, and think it's about time he left

[Dave. zzz....]

Gordon Brown's initial success with the economy came about by his use of the existing Tory spending plans from their previous tenure. From there we were bound to enter a 'boom' period in the cycle, what he did well was to keep inflation low.

Whilst Hague was before his time, and Iain Duncan Smith simply a fool, Cameron has the next general election in the bag, I tell thee.

[paddys wink]

god i hope so

[Echoes]

P.Dave, on Jan 5 2006, 10:08 PM, said:

Gordon Brown's initial success with the economy came about by his use of the existing Tory spending plans from their previous tenure. From there we were bound to enter a 'boom' period in the cycle, what he did well was to keep inflation low.

Whilst Hague was before his time, and Iain Duncan Smith simply a fool, Cameron has the next general election in the bag, I tell thee.

a common story tory supporters repeat to each other as much as they can until they all end up believing it; the fact that the country's economy became a complete fucking shambles under the tory leadership to a point where the once proud tory party tucked tail and signed britain up to Europe against all its principles. That argument might have been credible back in Labour's first term but ten years on and you're still repeating it? How many years have to pass before you stop taking credit for work other people are doing?!

That said, I'm lib dem, not labour. There's a lot not to like about these Labour years. Iraq, the impending pensions crisis, the misuse of the Parliament Act, ID cards, letting the US get away with bad human rights abuses and rendition (CIA) flights, and so on. They slimed and spun - less so after that despicable first term, after they put the creep Alaistair Campbell out on his arse. But let's not make any illusions - spin comes more naturally than breathing to all these people, whatever House of Parliament bench they're sitting on.

On the balance, there's no denying the UK's had a few decent years under this government, and it would be hard to construe otherwise. No matter how much we grumble about the NHS, the rail network, the london underground, things are looking up. All that said, I don't think ANY party - even the Lib Dems - should stay too long in power. Things have to have a natural balance. Britain suffered bitterly under too many years of Tories in power. A change in government lets in the air, keeps things fresh. So whilst ideally the lib dems will win the next election, i'd still prefer a tory win to a labour one next time round. Even though I think labour did a pretty good job, it's time to take a back seat for a while. Crop rotation, if you will


plus, the tories are so desperate to win that they've given the job to a cocaine addict who's making them even more left wing than labour!

This post has been edited by bradley: 06 January 2006 - 01:11 AM

[where_i'm_calling_from]

i found out yesterday that as of april 1st you will no longer be able to claim dentistry on the NHS, immediately taking britain's oral hygeine back to pre-1948 standards, when the NHS was founded (my dentist makes this claim on the basis that no-one really cares about their teeth unless the appointments are free: if they have to pay, they just don't bother). nice one, labour.

[Forgone Conclusion]

I actually think that david cameron is just what the tory party needed. He should rejuvinate what was a stuffy and old-fashioned party. I think he could well win the next election

Bradley, what do you think (on a slightly related note) about Charles Kennedy's apparent impeding doom? Do you think he'll go or stay? Do you WANT him to go or stay? (feel free to move this to a new topic if you see fit)

[Echoes]

i'd be happy to see him go. he's a nice guy, too nice to be a politician really. but he's shown that he can't win elections (despite encouraging results as of late). The criticisms aimed at the lib dem - too wishy washy, no firm direction; are all too true. It's time for a new leader. The next election is going to be an odd one - with all three parties fighting for the middle ground!

as for the nhs dentistry thing, i discovered the pain of paying for someone to torture me for fifteen minutes for this first time this morning; as I'm no longer 18, i have to pay. 25 fucking quid!! anyways, there are forms you can fill in to get free dentistry if you're not earning - no doubt that will continue after april 1st, which seems fair enough to me; those who can't pay, don't.

[Dave. zzz....]

bradley, on Jan 6 2006, 01:08 AM, said:

P.Dave, on Jan 5 2006, 10:08 PM, said:

Gordon Brown's initial success with the economy came about by his use of the existing Tory spending plans from their previous tenure. From there we were bound to enter a 'boom' period in the cycle, what he did well was to keep inflation low.

Whilst Hague was before his time, and Iain Duncan Smith simply a fool, Cameron has the next general election in the bag, I tell thee.

a common story tory supporters repeat to each other as much as they can until they all end up believing it; the fact that the country's economy became a complete fucking shambles under the tory leadership to a point where the once proud tory party tucked tail and signed britain up to Europe against all its principles. That argument might have been credible back in Labour's first term but ten years on and you're still repeating it? How many years have to pass before you stop taking credit for work other people are doing?!

A true story. And whoever was in power would have reaped the benefits from '98 onwards, it just happened to be Labour at the time.

You've got me started on Europe.

The principle of Europe's 'EU' is basically a race between the expansionalists and the integrationists. Germany and France, integrationists, want the EU to become a close political federation akin to the USA but controlled (of course) by them. We on the other hand want it to become as large as it can possibly get, and little more than a large free-trade area. Without us entering, trade would cost more (obvious), and the idiots in Berlin/Paris would have gotton things their way and be on the verge of forming another superpower right on our doorstep.

To begin with the integrationists made all the running with EU elections, the EU parliament etc. & they thought the single currency would seal it for them. Recently the tide has turned - the single currency has caused problems at a time when mainland European economies faltered & the British got their way to expand the EU to include the East European countries before agreement about majority voting was properly formulated. Its also worth noting we are the biggest champions of Turkish entry.

It's worth noting that I'd happily support Blair over his whole giving up of Britain's rebate, and the Tories whilst openly criticising the policy to get more brownie points with the voters, know full well that they'd be doing exactly the same thing in Labour's shoes. In the grand scheme of things the calculation is that a billion or two we lose by giving up some of our rebate (which for a £500 billion government annual spend aint really that much) was worth keeping on-side what will be natural allies (Eastern Europe) in future political wrangles with Paris & Munich.

And that's basically all I know about politics, in one post.

This post has been edited by P.Dave: 06 January 2006 - 07:10 PM

[paddys wink]

blairs britain
crime on the rise dramatically
pensions forget it
travel public transport a fucking joke,congested roads
tax up,up,up,up,up,up,
nhs you go to hospitals to cure diseases,not catch them
imigration the open door head in the sand policy
gordon brown the reverse midas ,turns gold into worthless shit
prescott what a waste of space,absolute numbskull.i mean just look at him
spin im dizzy,why when its the tories is it called sleaze?
blunkett,portillo good god anyone else would be looking at a stretch in the scrubs
eu go on tony keep giving away our money hand over fist


well done tony

ps who would let there spouse rob a kiddies cancer charity tro the tune of £100,000